JBM:
Lets start at the beginning, it's the early 70's and you discover
your
love of erotic stories, how did you translate that into starting
an
internet business?
MOJO:
Early 70's?!? In the early 70's I was about 5 years old. My
business
sense hadn't kicked in just yet. Around 1995 I had developed
a web
site (on AOL home pages ) to sell bicycle supplies. I couldn't
sell a
damn thing, but I was able to attract traffic and I got a
PPC ad deal
for $0.04 per click. I contacted a few other bike sites and
had them
place ads for $0.02/click. I figured that I could really increase
traffic to the site if I added some mature content so I developed
a
site around advice for men, cigars, sports betting, and erotic
stories. The stories were the only thing that brought in big
traffic.
JBM:
What did you do before the internet?
MOJO:
I owned a seasonal bicycle shop while in college and then
I had a
small chain of car washes. I got hired by a big oil company
out of
college, but I was always an entrepreneur at heart and sort
of
realized early on that I could only make big money working
for myself.
The internet came along while I had the car washes.
JBM:
What were some of the early successes you had?
MOJO:
Geez. I don't want to sound like a pompous ass. But there
were a lot
early on. I guess you want to hear about the adult stuff....
In the
early days before sponsors measured productivity you'd just
get say a
flat $0.05 for a raw click thru. Well, you'd get a site listed
on
Yahoo, replace almost all the content with banner ads, and
make a few
thousand $$$ off that one listing in two weeks time.
It was also fun when CJ sites first started getting figured
out. I
was pretty active with that in the very early days. You'd
build a
l-o-n-g site full of enticing text links, no content whatsoever,
and
90% of the links would go to other link lists and 10% you
skimmed off
to sponsors. You could build a site like that up to 25,000
or 40,000
uniques a day pretty quickly. The difference was that, back
then, the
10% you skimmed each day made you $400 to $600/day.
I guess the other big things we did were to figure out that
the
pay-per-sale model worked for paysites. MaxCash
was first and we were
second. It was a little scary writing some big checks while
waiting
for the recurrings to build, but once we turned the corner
it was a
huge moneymaker.
But the biggest success overall was learning how to be a
successful
traffic broker and realizing that traffic was the blood of
the
internet. For a couple of years there we controlled millions
of click
thrus a day in BlindLinks.com
and RawLikeSushi.com.
It made you feel
very powerful to control such a huge amount of traffic. It's
hard to
compare it to 2004 as clicks back then were on a completely
different
level as far as value and potency. This was before there was
tons of
free content all over. We actually made the surfer pay for
it!
JBM:
On the flipside, discuss some of the early disappointments.
MOJO:
I have the same regret most webmasters do...not registering
more
domains early on. As far as disappointments, they all revolve
around
a central theme of "lots of eggs in one basket."
We have a number of
contracts/deals that we were doing huge numbers with, and
then, as is
the nature of the internet, there is swift change and everything
goes
in a different direction and the deal dissolves overnight.
I mean,
everything in your professional life can be viewed as a disappointment
or a regret. You can always do better. I'm sorry if this answer
isn't too exciting. I wish I could tell a cool story about
clawing
our way back from the edge of disaster but it's never been
that way.
We're a pretty conservative company and even when we took
big hits we
kept on chugging along.
JBM:
If you had to pick a defining moment for your business, what
would it
be?
MOJO:
Hmm....it would be a toss up between the decision to go into
mainstream and our cell phone venture.
Moving into (and staying in) mainstream in 1999 was a defining
moment
because we were comically far ahead of them at the time. We
introduced a click program with live stats and bi-weekly payment
when
Amazon.com
was state-of-the-art with stats every week by email and
payment once a quarter. We got absolutely crucified by the
mainstream
press and web forums. They swore we had to be a scam because
there
was no possible way to provide stat tracking INSTANTLY! :)
Then a
few pay periods went by and the mainstream webmasters we're
like "Hey,
I really got a check!" and the next thing you know were
now
controlling hundreds of thousands of mainstream clicks a day.
That
led to us starting the very first search brokering program
and the
very first pop window program. All three of which are still
active
today. The pop window program still does huge numbers for
us.
The other moment was the day that AT&T called and told
us we were in
the top 4 retailers of cell phones in the nation. There was
Best Buy,
Circuit City, Radio Shack and we. It was pretty exciting,
we got a
nice piece in the Wall Street Journal. I remember some folks
snickering that we got "taken" by paying a 6 figure
amount for
CellularPhones.com.
:)
JBM:
Compare porn money and mainstream money. Which makes bigger
piles and
which is more fun to stuff your pillow with?
MOJO:
I actually stuff my pillow with this.
http://www.soothsoft.com/chillow.htm
It's great. Way better than
money.
Kidding aside 99.9% of our business is mainstream nowadays.
I still
have a bunch of adult domains that generate a nice cash flow,
but our
business is mainstream.
What I've found to be true is that adult money is easier
to generate,
and faster to deteriorate, and mainstream money takes a long
time to
get the ball rolling, but once you get it going it's almost
like an
annuity. It just rolls in for ever.
If you're an adult webmaster and you're not branching out
into
mainstream I really think you're doing yourself a disservice.
JBM:
Do you ever got tired of carrying 12clicks around on your
coattails?
And don't worry, he wont read this.
MOJO:
Ha! How heavy can he be....he's only 12 clicks! 12clicks and
I
really complement each other professionally. I'm more the
conservative, quiet, big picture type and he's more the aggressive,
bold, let's-get-moving type. We often disagree, but we rarely
argue.
It's amazing how well we get along considering we're together
every
day. I'm very, very fortunate to come to the office everyday
and work
with a friend as true as he.
JBM:
After the internet bubble burst, you guys were one of the
few to make
money in mainstream, what made you think you could do it in
the first
place?
MOJO:
Well, the two things we had going for us were our superior
technology
(as I mentioned above) and the fact that we were in the unique
position that we could throw some money at different projects
and we
didn't have to have them start making money right away. Plus
we had
already learned so many lessons in adult and those lessons
are only
expensive the first time around. :)
JBM:
You guys were doing big numbers with WorldCom, what was going
through
your head when they told you they were going belly up and
couldn't buy
anymore contracts?
MOJO:
My first thought was not so much the revenue hit we were going
to
take, but how to keep our thousands of monthly cellular activations
rolling along. We had one hell a business and I wanted to
keep it
rolling as long as possible. That and WorldCom's CEO, Bernie
Ebbers,
blew us off once when we were supposed to have dinner in Vegas.
I'm
still pissed about that.
JBM:
I visited a message board where people spend all day clicking
each
other's affiliate links and see nothing wrong with it. Does
that
behavior amaze you?
MOJO:
Not at all. When we started in mainstream there were 8 or
9 large CPC
ad agencies. 2 years later we were the only ones left. The
others
got faded out of business because they didn't take click fraud
seriously. It's a huge issue behind the scenes with some of
the big
search engines that are selling CPC traffic. I think your
going to
see an interesting, messy, and very expensive surprise come
out for
one of the search engines soon. A fair percentage of their
click
traffic is questionable. Most of the adult webmasters have
caught on
(many great adult terms are now unbid) but many the mainstream
guys
still don't track ROI like they should and they are just starting
to
wake up. They just thought they'd put their CPC ads on 500,000
different websites and depend on their infallible algorithms
to catch
any fraud. Very foolish....
JBM:
For people new to the business, what advice can you offer
them?
MOJO:
Hmm. I guess the number one thing would be to invest in yourself.
If
you're earning a few bucks plow a consistent portion of it
back into
your own operation. The other would be to move into mainstream.
My advice would be to find a mainstream niche you have an
interest in
and develop, over time, a network of sites for it. Look on
Google
AdWords or Overture to research key words that have a high
value when
deciding what niche to develop. Remember that in mainstream
the ease
at building traffic to a site is inversely proportional to
the value
of that traffic. (i.e. You can quickly build a playstation
site to
10,000 visitors a day but those visitors are close to worthless,
while
a site that attracts software developers might take a year
to build to
1000/day but they attract very expensive advertising.)
When you have a site in a lucrative niche advertisers will
be knocking
your door down. Let's say you like cars (which is a half decent
niche). Maybe build your first site about Porsches. Set up
forums,
link to news feeds, post articles, set up photo galleries,
etc. Once
the site is running and your getting some traffic in, build
your next
site about Mercedes. Before you know it you'll have a nice
little
network set up, commanding high dollar advertising, and the
thing will
be essentially feeding off itself.
JBM:
Since you are a very successful businessman, tell us what
you think is
most important in running a successful business.
MOJO:
Hmm...always try to increase your profit margarines! Kidding
aside I
think what's worked best for me on the internet has maximizing
my
current revenue streams while taking calculated chances on
developing
new businesses. Basically....keep tweaking and trying different
things with what's making you money now and work on starting
up new
things.
Also, don't be afraid of failure. If you've never gotten
a black eye
in business you've most likely never really taken any chances.
JBM:
Onto the future, what are some of the challenges you see for
internet
businesses in general, in the next 12 to 16 months?
MOJO:
Hmm. In mainstream I feel we're going to see an escalation
of the
ongoing "cold war" between companies like Google
and Microsoft who
distribute ad blocking software, and web publishers who need
to
exercise their right to advertise on their sites any way they
wish.
JBM:
Who bothers you more? Poor people or democrats?
MOJO:
Neither "bother" me per se. Rich or poor, if a person
is working and
supporting themselves and/or their family than I have all
the respect
in the world for them. If you're the CEO of a Fortune 500
company or
your a line worker at a factory, as long your working and
being a
contributing member of society than you're all right by me.
I am very, very concerned with the Democratic party's blatant
promotion of class hatred in society. I have never before
heard a
candidate for public office openly mock and ridicule a segment
of the
American population before. I listened with my own ears while
the
Democratic nominee for Vice President showed contempt for
me while
talking about how "the rich are sipping champagne by
their pools..."
What would be the outcry by the Democratic party if Dick Cheney
had
talked about how "the poor are sipping malt liquor on
their front
stoops? They'd be rioting.
For some reason they are trying to enforce feelings that
if you are
successful in America that you are now somehow evil and undeserving.
50% of the citizens of this nation pay 96.7% of the taxes.
It's a
given how the one side that pays no taxes votes. If you're
in
business, and you don't want to have everything you earn taken
from
you because you're successful, I really think you need to
look at the
candidates you're supporting. Not just on a national level,
but on
the state and local level as well.
Either way the office of the President of the United States
is the
office of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln. I have respect
for the
office and for the person holding that office no matter if
I agree
with their policies or not. A leaders job is to lead, not
build a
consensus for every decision.
JBM:
12clicks has his wine and looking down on those less fortunate
than
himself, what do you do for fun?
MOJO:
I'm very dull. Sad but true. I recently got divorced and,
quite
frankly, my children and my business are really my life right
now.
I do a lot of reading (non-fiction only), I have season tickets
for
football and hockey, and I waste more money than I should
on cars and
pinball machines and watches. I'm sorry I can't spice this
up by
talking about doing coke with Paris Hilton in a Vegas hotel
suite, but
I'm really just a big ole' geek.
I spend a LOT of time helping my kids with their homework
and school
projects. If you have any elementary school questions on math,
science, or social studies I'm the guy to ask. :)
Other than that my idea of the perfect day is to be at my
summer home,
spend the day on the beach with my kids, and take them to
the
boardwalk at night. I can do that 7 days a week all summer
long.
JBM:
To wrap it up, anything you want to plug? Maybe tell us why
bush is
the second coming of Christ?
MOJO:
Nah...No plugs needed and I hardly feel that Bush is the second
coming
of anyone. If anyone needs a little push in the right direction
on
moving into mainstream you can always contact me.
JBM:
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with us.
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